Template talk:Campaignbox Northern Ireland Troubles

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__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONDESKTOP__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-DagosNavy-2011-01-02T01:40:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-South_Armagh_Sniper(s)-2011-01-02T01:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-DagosNavy-2011-01-02T01:40:00.000Z-South_Armagh_Sniper(s)"],"text":"South Armagh Sniper(s)","linkableTitle":"South Armagh Sniper(s)"}-->

South Armagh Sniper(s)

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__DTLATESTCOMMENTTHREAD__{"id":"c-Asarla\u00ed-2011-01-02T02:04:00.000Z-DagosNavy-2011-01-02T01:50:00.000Z","timestamp":"2011-01-02T02:04:00.000Z"}__-->__DTCOMMENTCOUNT__4__-->__DTAUTHORCOUNT__2__-->

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The notability of the sniping IRA campaign in South Armagh during the 1990s deserves to be included in the campaignbox. The fact that the incidents happened (as in any campaign) in different periods of time doesn't matters here.--Darius (talk) 01:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-02T01:40:00.000Z","author":"DagosNavy","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-DagosNavy-2011-01-02T01:40:00.000Z-South_Armagh_Sniper(s)","replies":["c-Asarla\u00ed-2011-01-02T01:43:00.000Z-DagosNavy-2011-01-02T01:40:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Darius"}}-->

That's fine. You're free to re-add it. ~Asarlaí 01:43, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-02T01:43:00.000Z","author":"Asarla\u00ed","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Asarla\u00ed-2011-01-02T01:43:00.000Z-DagosNavy-2011-01-02T01:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-DagosNavy-2011-01-02T01:50:00.000Z-Asarla\u00ed-2011-01-02T01:43:00.000Z"],"displayName":"~Asarla\u00ed"}}-->

Thank you Asarlaí, and Happy New Year :).--Darius (talk) 01:50, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-02T01:50:00.000Z","author":"DagosNavy","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-DagosNavy-2011-01-02T01:50:00.000Z-Asarla\u00ed-2011-01-02T01:43:00.000Z","replies":["c-Asarla\u00ed-2011-01-02T02:04:00.000Z-DagosNavy-2011-01-02T01:50:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Darius"}}-->

Same to you. ~Asarlaí 02:04, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-02T02:04:00.000Z","author":"Asarla\u00ed","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Asarla\u00ed-2011-01-02T02:04:00.000Z-DagosNavy-2011-01-02T01:50:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"~Asarla\u00ed"}}-->

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Killings of Anne Ogilby, Paddy Wilson and Irene Andrews

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The Anne Ogilby killing is an exellent article, as ar all of Jeanne's Troubles articles. However, I don't think it belongs in this campaignbox. Altho Anne Ogilby was killed during The Troubles by female members of the UDA, the killing wasn't politically motivated. It was the result of a personal dispute between a group of women, who just happend to be UDA members. If we include the killing of an individual like Anne Ogilby, we'd also hav to include a lot of similar killings, which simply don't belong in a military campaignbox.

The Paddy Wilson and Irene Andrews killings is another truly exellent article. However (as I noted with the Ogilby article), if we include it in the template then we'd hav to include a lot of similar articles.

What do you think? ~Asarlaí 22:18, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-12-26T22:18:00.000Z","author":"Asarla\u00ed","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Asarla\u00ed-2011-12-26T22:18:00.000Z-Killings_of_Anne_Ogilby,_Paddy_Wilson_and_Irene_Andrews","replies":["c-DagosNavy-2011-12-26T23:17:00.000Z-Asarla\u00ed-2011-12-26T22:18:00.000Z"],"displayName":"~Asarla\u00ed"}}-->

Well, first of all, the work of Jeanne in Wikipedia is absolutely impressive, both regarding Nobility-related articles and also on pages related to the Troubles. On the other hand, I agree with Asarlaí that the campaignbox must include: 1) military operations (Warrenpoint, Loughgall or less-known ones but also notable like Operation Conservation or 1994 Gazelle shootdown); 2) high-profile or "strategic" bombings or operations (1993 Bishopsgate bombing, 1996 Manchester bombing); 3) notable riots (1969 Northern Ireland riots, 1992 Coalisland riots) and 4) high-profile assassinations/indiscriminate bombings/atrocities (Brighton hotel bombing, Downing Street mortar attack , the missing article about the death of Mountbatten, Shankill Road bombing, Warrington bombings, Greysteel massacre or the Loughinisland massacre). I am of the personal opinion that individual killings (exceptions made of Airey Neave or Ian Gow) don't belong to the campaignbox, even those of low-rank, off-duty members of the UDR/RIR or RUC where there was returning fire or some sort of "gun battle" with the gunmen.--Darius (talk) 23:17, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-12-26T23:17:00.000Z","author":"DagosNavy","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DagosNavy-2011-12-26T23:17:00.000Z-Asarla\u00ed-2011-12-26T22:18:00.000Z","replies":["c-Jeanne_boleyn-2011-12-30T17:48:00.000Z-DagosNavy-2011-12-26T23:17:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Darius"}}-->

Thanks for your praise. I really appreciate it. Regarding the Wilson/Andrews killings, I would say that was politically-motivated considering Wilson was a prominent nationalist politician and the UFF claimed it. As for Anne Ogilby, the reason I did include it was on account that it was carried out inside a UDA "romper room" folowing a UDA kangaroo court. The perps were all members of the women's UDA unit, despite the attack not being politically-motivated. It was a classic case of a punishment beating/rompering because Ogilby had made the mistake of repeating defamatory comments which could have landed a member of the women's UDA (Elizabeth Young) in hot water had she really been misusing LPA money as Anne Ogilby implied in public. Perhaps there would be a new template to cover individual killings such as Anne Ogilby's, the Reavey and O'Dowds, the Tandragee killings, etc.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:48, 30 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-12-30T17:48:00.000Z","author":"Jeanne boleyn","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Jeanne_boleyn-2011-12-30T17:48:00.000Z-DagosNavy-2011-12-26T23:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-Asarla\u00ed-2012-01-02T22:51:00.000Z-Jeanne_boleyn-2011-12-30T17:48:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yeah, it might be a good idea to hav another navbox for all the more noteworthy assassinations or lone killings. Altho the Wilson/Andrews killing would seem to be politically-motivated, it'd be inconsistent to include that one and not the others (Rosemary Nelson, Ian Gow, Pat Finucane, Norman Stronge/James Stronge, Airey Neave, Louis Mountbatten, Maurice Gibson, Máire Drumm, Christopher Ewart-Biggs, Billy Fox, Ross McWhirter, a.s.f). Some of those killings had more of an impact than the Wilson/Andrews killing, but even if we wer to include all the noteworthy ones then the campaignbox would become much too big. As Darius noted, such lone killings generally don't belong on a military campaignbox anyway. ~Asarlaí 22:51, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-01-02T22:51:00.000Z","author":"Asarla\u00ed","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Asarla\u00ed-2012-01-02T22:51:00.000Z-Jeanne_boleyn-2011-12-30T17:48:00.000Z","replies":["c-Jeanne_boleyn-2012-01-03T08:20:00.000Z-Asarla\u00ed-2012-01-02T22:51:00.000Z"],"displayName":"~Asarla\u00ed"}}-->

Fair enough. If the Mountbatten, Neave and Nelson killings aren't listed it does appear to be inconsistent to list the Ogilby and Wilson/Andrews killings. A separate navbox would be good to list the assassinations and individual killings. I also agree with DagosNavy that there should be a separate article on Lord Mountbatten's killing.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:20, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-01-03T08:20:00.000Z","author":"Jeanne boleyn","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Jeanne_boleyn-2012-01-03T08:20:00.000Z-Asarla\u00ed-2012-01-02T22:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-Tdv123-2017-12-09T20:52:00.000Z-Jeanne_boleyn-2012-01-03T08:20:00.000Z"]}}-->

I agree the killing of Anne Ogibly should not be included because it was not politically motivated. But the Paddy Wilson and Irene Andrews killings were politically motivated and journalist Peter Taylor interviewed the killer and he explained his reasons for killing senator Wilson, it was as gruesome as some of the Shankill Butchers murders. Using a knife instead of a gun or bomb was just the normal MO for a lot of Loyalist paramilitaries. But there are no articles specifically relating to the killings of Mountbatten, Finucane, Stronge, Bill Wright etc.. there is an article to Airey Neave's killing. Tdv123 20:52, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-12-09T20:52:00.000Z","author":"Tdv123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Tdv123-2017-12-09T20:52:00.000Z-Jeanne_boleyn-2012-01-03T08:20:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->