User talk:Johnmoor/Archive 2

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 20:44, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

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Hello, Johnmoor. You have new messages at Mike Rosoft's talk page.
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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Grammarly, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Rating (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Hi. I made a mistake and mis-placed an RfC tag on my Sandbox ... so the RfC for Jared Diamond looked like it was in the wrong place. The correct RfC is located here: Talk:Jared_Diamond#RfC_-_Is_BLP_violated_by_mentioning_dropped_lawsuit_against_Diamond.3F. I'm willing to move your response from my sandbox to that place, but you should probably do it, because there are a couple of comments there already, and they may influence your thoughts. So you should probably be the one to move it. Please contact me if you need any help doing that. --Noleander (talk) 15:20, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Done. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 15:33, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

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World Digital Library Wikipedia Partnership - We need you!

Hi Johnmoor! I'm the Wikipedian In Residence at the World Digital Library, a project of the Library of Congress and UNESCO. I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about history & culture to participate in improving Wikipedia using the WDL's vast free online resources. Participants can earn our awesome WDL barnstar and help to disseminate free knowledge from over 100 libraries in 7 different languages. Multilingual editing encouraged!!! But being multilingual is not a necessity to make this project a success. Please sign up to participate here. Thanks for editing Wikipedia and I look forward to working with you! SarahStierch (talk) 22:37, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

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Thanks for the note. I'm not sure what concerns you have about the relevant policies and sources. Do you think all the sources in the article follow WP:PSTS, or perhaps not so many that a tag is needed for the entire article, or something else completely? --Ronz (talk) 16:27, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

I created the current Grammarly article, so I know that I diligently avoided the use of primary sources, except you have other definition for primary sources other than what is spelt out under WP:PSTS. If you look at the article talk page under Old AfD, New Content and Subsequent Deletions and follow the links there, you will find that two administrators had previously deleted and restored the article due to a previously closed AfD, and none had issues with the references but were only misled by my edit summary which made them think that it is the same old content that could not pass AfD. I think that you misapplied the rule, and GeorgeLouis corrected it, then you went into an ego fight, disregarding WP:EW. Thank you. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 18:00, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm not saying that there should be another AfD. I haven't looked at all the sources that closely. All I noticed was a great deal of primary sources, at least some of which are being used without any other sources.

So you don't have anything specific to dispute, but rather are pointing out the past work on the article? --Ronz (talk) 18:05, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

If I had not made myself clear enough to you, I am saying that there is no primary source used in the current Grammarly article that do not pass WP:PSTS, and if you think that there is, then point it out to me, and if you cannot point out any, then do the proper thing—remove the tag from the article. Thank you. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 18:17, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying. Taking this discussion to the article talk page... --Ronz (talk) 18:30, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

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I've unblocked this, left the other version locked. It's unlikely that a searcher would add the doctorates to the name. I might reconsider that at a later date. Given the troubled history of this article, with multiple deletions, you will appreciate that the article will need to be well-referenced and neutral, or it's likely to go back to the cage Jimfbleak - talk to me? 20:28, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Did you create this file? It appears to be a professional head shot. Hairhorn (talk) 16:18, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, and that shot have been worked on with both Adobe Photoshop and Paint.NET. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 16:41, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

But did you actually take the picture yourself, with a camera? It's rather unlike your other uploads. Hairhorn (talk) 16:52, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

It is unlike my other uploads, because those are not enhanced. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 16:58, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

My point is that it appears to be a professional headshot, as done by someone who works as a photographer, something not suggested by your other files. Hairhorn (talk) 17:01, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Others are more like casual shots, but this is a portrait depicting not only the individual but also his profession. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 17:18, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

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Thanks! --Ronz (talk) 16:35, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

You cannot be a judge in your own case. No contributor had directly addressed what should be removed or if the Template:Refimprove or Template:Primary sources should be replaced, NinjaRobotPirate only gave his opinion on the reliability of BBB, which in this case has nothing to do with the fact that Grammarly is a BBB accredited business. WP:PSTS is very clear on how to use primary sources; study it again. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 17:16, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

"You cannot be a judge in your own case." Are you just making things up now? Does this apply to you as well?

I suggest you leave the article alone. Your behavior and attitude is incompatible with improving this encyclopedia. --Ronz (talk) 18:00, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

You are only judging youself, not me; take a look at the history of Grammarly, I am not the first to revert you and you revert back! Less you forget, no one knows it all in here. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 18:12, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

So your behavior is not to be discussed and your own made-up rules don't apply to you then? --Ronz (talk) 18:28, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

"Own made-up rules" like WP:PSTS? —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 18:44, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

No, like "You cannot be a judge in your own case."

But since you want to discuss PSTS, if you'll look at the article talk page discussion, we've concluded that sources that you said were simply not primary sources at all are indeed primary sources. We're also concluded that some are being used inappropriately. Further, editors agreed to my proposal to remove the material you insist on restoring. --Ronz (talk) 19:39, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

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I'm not sure what you mean, please can you clarify? GiantSnowman 13:33, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

You have not responded to my reply on your talk page. It read's: "I supposed that someone nominated it for PROD|deletion, I am hoping you could tell me the date it was tagged, because I did not see it on my last check, else I would have opposed it. I am saying that the PROD was wrongly used, AfD should have been appropriate, because there is opposition. Please restore." Thank you. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 15:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I've not responded because I've been away from my computer. I will restore the article, please update and improve accordingly. GiantSnowman 15:21, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

OK, thank you. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 15:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

 Done GiantSnowman 15:35, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you again. Working on it now. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 15:40, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

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Please stop reverting at Grammarly and respond to the discussion on the talk page. When you revert information that is not disputed, it undermines the case that you have policy-based concerns for the dispute. --Ronz (talk) 16:17, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

See Grammarly history and the talk page and tell me who is Wikipedia:Edit warring—who is not adhering to Wikipedia:Etiquette and does not want to wait for Wikipedia:Consensus—you or I? —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 16:29, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Consensus is not built by ignoring discussions on relevant policies and sources. If you're not going to respond, then you leave consensus to those who do. --Ronz (talk) 16:32, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. --Ronz (talk) 16:31, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello? Please take a look at WP:OWN while you're at it. Were you planning on adding something to the talk page, or just ignoring the consensus there? --Ronz (talk) 23:12, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Is this the first detailed dispute you've ever been in? Seems like you don't understand what's going on with key issues of the dispute, and that you're ignoring other editors' comments.

For example, you claimed that the self-published sources from the universities were secondary sources. It's still unclear to me that you understand that they are primary sources. Do you or don't you think they are primary sources?

Another example, you claimed that no editors identified primary sources being used inappropriately. The fact is that multiple editors identified such sources, and multiple editors agreed to their removal. Do you or don't you think that multiple editors identified such sources? Do you or don't you think that even more editors agreed to the removal of at least some of the information and sources?

If there's a dispute going on over the use of primary sources, then why shouldn't the article be tagged as having a dispute going on over the issue? --Ronz (talk) 19:39, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Of course, I understand that using those universities references to verify their licensing of Grammarly constitute using primary sources, but not wrongly, because it is a straightforward statement of fact. But do you realise that those same universities references constitute secondary sources when used to verify what they said of Grammarly, the service and software? As such, a common ground is most acceptable, but you keep on insisting that only your opinion is right. Besides, I also understand that when contributing to resolving a dispute, third-parties have to be direct and specific on each point raised. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 08:16, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. We agree then that the university sources are primary sources.

Could you please answer my other questions? --Ronz (talk) 16:01, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

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You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Grammarly. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. --Ronz (talk) 16:00, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

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Your editing is being discussed at WP:3RRNB --Ronz (talk) 20:28, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Since you've continued your edit-warring, there's another report at 3RRNB. --Ronz (talk) 15:32, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

• John, it is usually considered a very bad taste to edit war to remove dispute tags from the article there you are a major contributor. The tag shows that some users are unhappy over the article. Please wait until your opponent is happy or until a third user would decide that there is no gound for a dispute. The users would not get less information if the tag is present but they will be forewarned that somebody is in disagreement with the contest. I would not block you this time but the next time you remove a dispute tag from the article somebody may block you. I am also restoring the tags not because I have an opinion over your dispute but because you should have removed them on the first place. Alex Bakharev (talk) 01:03, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

• Hi Alex, Thank you for intervening, but it seems that you have not thoroughly assessed this dispute: Ronz tagged with Template:Refimprove, GeorgeLouis undid him, he undid GeorgeLouis, replacing Template:Refimprove with Template:Primary sources, then I talked to him, telling him there is no such improper use of primary sources to justify the tagging, but instead of talking, he decided to remove contents with primary references, I said it is wrong to remove any content that complies with WP:PSTS, so I undid him. To understand the problem and determine exactly who would not wait for third-parties' contributions, please take a proper look at the talk page and history, and talk to Ronz too to wait for third-parties, because it is likely (with this warning) that he would start removing or restoring disputed contents again. Thank you. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 11:28, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

• • Anyway, please refrain from removing dispute tags from any articles in the next month or so. It is much better alternative than to be blocked for edit warring Alex Bakharev (talk) 15:00, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

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Thanks for your upload to Wikipedia:

• File:Screenshot of Service Seeking Australia website.png

You provided a source, but it is difficult for other users to examine the copyright status of the image because the source is incomplete. Please consider clarifying the exact source so that the copyright status may be checked more easily. It is best to specify the exact Web page where you found the image, rather than only giving the source domain or the URL of the image file itself. Please update the image description with a URL that will be more helpful to other users in determining the copyright status.

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Thanks for uploading File:Samara James Logo.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Werieth (talk) 16:37, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

I'll defer to Jéské Couriano, since he's the one who protected it. Nyttend (talk) 02:08, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Never mind; I've checked his userpage. I'll see what Phantomsteve has to say. Meanwhile, it would help if you would provide a link to the page where you've written your new content, if it's online. Nyttend (talk) 02:10, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Nyttend. Unfortunately, I do not work in sandboxes, I rather use the preview feature and save source code in text files. The content I have is written by myself, it is well sourced. Thank you again. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 10:14, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

No problem; I always do the same myself. Still waiting for a reply from Phantomsteve. Nyttend (talk) 12:24, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

• I have changed the protection so that only auto-confirmed accounts can create/edit the article. I do, of course, reserve the right to monitor the page, and if necessary to delete/re-protect the page - but looking at your work, I do not think that's going to be a problem! I look forward to seeing your article. Regards, PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 15:18, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

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Hi, As you may be aware, there has been a significant uptick in concerns about paid editing. Given the nature of your work here, it seems likely you are paid for your work here. Could you address that concern and the conflict-of-interest issues it brings? Thanks, Hobit (talk) 12:50, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

I think you should judge the contents of my works and not the motive; after all, assuming good faith is a good virtue here. I save articles of notable subjects which have been in trouble due to poor work or un-encyclopaedic tone of previous contributors. I understand that many people would want to spam Wikipedia and many Wikipedia advanced users are often sceptical about the motive of articles concerning commercially inclined subjects, but I also believe that subjects which deserve a Wikipedia article should have one; after all, knowledge is golden, everyone should have it, and Wikipedia is a good knowledge resource. You may want to read my other discussion on this here. Thank you. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 13:23, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I will say that given the number of articles you've worked on that have problems (including things deleted at AfD, via G11 and edit wars over un-encyclopedic content) that judging you by your works isn't very favorable--that is why I came here to begin with. Could you address if you are being paid to edit here? Hobit (talk) 14:10, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

I would say that I am not afraid to go all the way, many tends to avoid conflicts with other users, but I do not. I would not deliberately break any rule, but people tend to explain the policies and guidelines differently, so if it takes third-parties, more advanced users or consensus to get it right, so be it. More often than not, you would find users sacrificing articles of clearly notable subjects on the altar of negative perception; some administrators even had to restore my contributions after they deleted them based on past history without even reviewing the new contents. You would find that whenever I am proved to be wrong, I thank whoever corrected me. No, I am not being paid to edit here, and if I am or when I am, I know where to disclose it. Thank you. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 14:41, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Since this is relevant to some current disputes with Johnmoor:

While I have no evidence that you are a paid editor, your behavior (ownership of articles, inability to learn relevant policies and guidelines, insistence on including poorly sourced and promotional material) is indistinguishable from someone being paid to edit. --Ronz (talk) 15:38, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Ronz. —JOHNMOORofMOORLAND (talk) 15:43, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

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