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Article Deletion Discussion - Robert Heisner Article

An article deletion discussion is ongoing about Robert Heisner, a Chrisitan minister who was also a martial arts expert who developed a new karate style.

If you are interested in this deletion discussion, you can find it here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Robert_Heisner#Robert_Heisner — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bushido77 (talk • contribs) 01:18, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strong viewpoint pushing from a self-proclaimed expert. Mangoe (talk) 17:46, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I second this request! Not just that article, but a vast number of articles related to Trinitarian theology, Arianism, and Early Church History have been rewritten in an argumentative/polemical style by AndriesvN, an Arian apologist who often copies/cites from their personal blog revelationbyjesuschrist.com in edits. There's currently an ANI open on them recommending a topic ban: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#AndriesvN_and_Christian_theology_articles

Given how prolific the user in question has been, it's going to be a huge task going through it all and bringing it up to Wikipedia standards (see user's contributions). All help is appreciated! HieronymusNatalis (talk) 11:21, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE: AndriesvN has been indef blocked as of today for being WP:NOTHERE. However, their numerous edits remain in serious need of review. See Special:Contributions/AndriesvN for a sense of what pages need work. It's a pretty hefty task. Thanks for any help! -HieronymusNatalis (talk) 17:18, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Depending on how many other editors have added positive content that is not just a modification of content added by AndriesvN, you might consider opening a discussion on whether it would be easier to roll the article all the way back to a point before they started editing. It might be easier to reinstate the good edits by other editors since that time, than to undo all the bad edits by AndriesvN. This would require discussion and consensus by editors, but is definitely an option; I was involved in reverting about 800 edits by someone doing the same thing to one of the Indian art history articles, I forget which one. We had strong consensus, and the rollback was successfully carried out, with a minimum of stress or strife. The key is take your time, and gain a strong consensus for it. I would not jump straight to Rfc; a discussion section may be sufficient. Mathglot (talk) 17:29, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Following are some of the edits by AndriesvN that may need attention:

1. Acacians: these 31 edits
2. Arian creeds: these 38 and these 15
3. Arius: these 28 and these 26
4. Council of Constantinople (360): these 2  Attended
5. Council of Serdica: these 23
6. Councils of Sirmium: these 6  Done Mathglot (talk)
7. Edict of Thessalonica: these 11  Done Mathglot (talk)
8. First Council of Nicaea: these 14 and these 6
9. Homoiousian: these 30
10. Hypostasis (philosophy and religion): these 5 and these 6
11. John 1:1: these 16  Done HieronymusNatalis (talk)
12. Logos (Christianity): these 9 and these 3
13. Meletius of Antioch: these 7  Done HieronymusNatalis (talk)
14. Melitians: these 11
15. Prophecy of Seventy Weeks: these 2  Done (previously; by: tgeorgescu)
16. Sabellius: these 3 Done -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t°
17. Subordinationism: these 43
18. Synods of Antioch: these 3  Done Mathglot (talk)
19. The Beast (Revelation): these 7

Given the extent of the potential damage, this may need assistance from additional editors. If you can help, please mark ones you have repaired with {{done}} in the list above (I waive WP:TPO) and your 3-tilde sig (~~~). If a link appears broken or does not represent a run of edits by AndriesvN, please add a comment below and I will fix it. Hopefully adding @Mangoe, HieronymusNatalis, Girth Summit, Hemiauchenia, ActivelyDisinterested, and Folly Mox:. Mathglot (talk) 19:26, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not familiar enough with Christian theology to really know what's worth keeping/discarding in AndriesvN's edits, but if there's consensus to essentially completely rollback their edits to the relevant articles I'm very happy to implement that. Hemiauchenia (talk) 19:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Is that even possible? Some of the edits are not recent; John 1:1 and a couple others are from 2022, for example. Mathglot (talk) 20:01, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Equally unfamiliar with the subject, but the one I checked added content based on their website that was in turn referencing Wikipedia for some of the information (it was circular). It could be worthwhile to view all the edits with suspicion. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 20:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(responding to ping) Mildly involved: removed WP:EL violations during the course of the ANI thread. Third disclosure: zero knowledge of early Christian theology.

Rollback of edits long since buried under more recent diffs is not possible in the usual easy sense, but contributions can be manually undone by reviewing the old edits and removing them from the current revision if their undoing is considered an improvement. It's a time consumer!

If any of AndriesvN's edits are reasonable to retain, a good first step would be to track down alternate, reputably published copies of the sources they hosted on their blog.

If we're going with the "manual nuke" approach, I should be able to help out, although not right now, and I'm also immediately minded of a French Historiography project I told Mathglot I'd try to help with a few weeks back, before as always becoming busy, tired, and forgetful. If we're doing a casewise assessment, evaluating the value – I guess lexically tautologically? – of the contributions, I definitely lack the expertise to assist. Folly Mox (talk) 20:20, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @Mathglot! I'm out of commission at the moment, but as soon as the academic term ends (mid-December), I'll start working on these. -HieronymusNatalis (talk) 17:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Smirmium done. Mathglot (talk) 23:22, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Architecture of the medieval cathedrals of England has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 15:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any form of standardisation for naming conventions for churches? I've seen both name of church, location; name of church + church, location; and name of church + denomination + church, location: e.g. St John's, London; St John's Church, London; or St John's Anglican Church, London. Traumnovelle (talk) 07:16, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Traumnovelle: There is WP:CHURCH, which essentially advocates WP:COMMONNAME. Then there is MOS:PARTSAINT, which implies that "{Church building} of Saint {X}" is the standard, though I don't think that's really borne out by usage on Wikipedia. In my experience "St John's Church, London" is the usual WP naming convention for Anglican churches in England or Wales, and I see that you've proposed the same style for an Anglican church in New Zealand here.

This has been discussed before at Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 August 3 § Naming conventions for church buildings; pinging KJP1 who started that discussion. The focus there was again quite British, and it was initially concerned with whether there should be different conventions for Anglican and (Roman) Catholic churches. I don't think either of those denominations should be named, mainly because of WP:CONCISE – though there are the unusual cases of St Mary's Cathedral, Edinburgh (Catholic) and St Mary's Cathedral, Edinburgh (Episcopal), where the denominations' names are necessary for disambiguation. It's a bit different with some other denominations; Chingford United Reformed Church is an example that was brought up in that discussion.

I'm not very fond of the "St John's, London" or "St John, London" constructions, which could read ambiguously like something other than churches – suburbs of London, for instance. However, I noted in the 2023 discussion that omitting "Church" often works for Catholic churches with lengthy dedications, e.g., "Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception and St John, London".

More past discussion is at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (architecture) § Places of worship (2009 and 2015), Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 137 § Articles about churches; titles of the format St. X ('s Church), Somewhere (2017), Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (architecture) § Churches (2024; entirely about churches in non–English-speaking countries). All these discussions tend to peter out before they can be fully resolved, but with this much discussion behind us I think resolution should be easier. Ham II (talk) 08:01, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, that was incredibly helpful. Traumnovelle (talk) 19:51, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

However, one of WP's basic principles for ambiguous terms is that when there is a primary topic it gets named with the term, undisambiguated, regardless of the fact that it will read ambiguously like something else. E.g. "London" is the name of many places and when a reader sees a "London" link, they can only presume (absent other info) it is for the primary London (which it is) and not for London, Ontario, or one of the many other Londons. So if there was a church called "St John's, London" and that was the primary topic, isn't that what we should call it, according to the Disambiguation guideline? Nurg (talk) 08:38, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Heaven Is for Real#Requested move 10 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 02:20, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edwin of Northumbria has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 15:52, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Since participation is lacking, I thought I'd publish the AfD here. Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Symphony_of_Heaven Graywalls (talk) 00:09, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Saints Cosmas and Damian#Requested move 9 December 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Feeglgeef (talk) 19:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please join this discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:12, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are all invited to help working on Frankfurt silver inscription, about the newly discovered oldest evidence of Christianity north of the alps. Renerpho (talk) 16:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Henry VIII has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 23:12, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Project members may wish to assist this article on a Christian hymn composer in passing a draft review (it failed). Here is the subject's entry in the Dictionary of Welsh Biography so the subject is clearly notable. Best. 4meter4 (talk) 03:17, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alfred North Whitehead has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 23:08, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

An RfC on a topic that concerns this WikiProject has been opened at: Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not#Request for comments: in cases of a large numbers of religious celebrations in a religious calendar (e.g., feast day of saints), can they all be listed in a non-list WP article? Veverve (talk) 18:31, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have raised a question at Template talk:Infobox ecumenical council#What about non-ecumenical councils?. Please come discuss the issue there. Veverve (talk) 22:17, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There's been a bit of an impasse between another editor and I at Talk:Jehovah's Witnesses in Canada#Potentially Biased Contribution about phrasing. I don't feel too strongly about the whore vs prostitute phrasing, but more eyes couldn't hurt either way as it's a delicate subject and maybe there's some other solution. If anyone's interested in expanding the article, that would be great too. I'm posting here instead of at WP:JW because this project appears to be way more active. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 19:31, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

An editor has requested that Trebizond be moved to Trebizond (disambiguation), which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion. TiggerJay (talk) 05:15, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]