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Combined IPA for Dutch and Afrikaans January 2010 - March 2015 IPA for Afrikaans

Previous talk before split brought from Help talk:IPA for Dutch.

A nasal [ɑ̃] appears in the pronunciation given at Afrikaans - should it be included here? Lfh (talk) 15:29, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We should indicate a nasalization diacritic rather than list any vowel that can be nasalized (I think it's all of them, but I'm not sure). — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]} 16:35, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if we're not sure, let's wait until we have a source. Lfh (talk) 15:46, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'll try to work on that. — Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 20:38, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There seem to be a few things missing, unless they are considered combinations of vowels we have represented already. I'll give them highlighted in their Afrikaans words: kraai (crow), baie (many, much, very), sê (say, tell), sneeu (snow), koei (cow), boikot (boycott), nooit (never). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.72.129 (talk) 10:25, 20 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's right - we've got to work on that.--Hooiwind (talk) 22:06, 21 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm familiar with IPA, but I'm not sure if I can clearly describe the sounds in IPA, I'm willing to record some words/sounds if someone can transcribe them into IPA, would be very helpfull. An error I've already corrected was [ɛː] for sê (this is supposed to be [eː], or something similar). Servien (talk) 18:50, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Would someone please re-check the Afrikaans vowel pronunciation for "o", because it's in the table as [o], while it's [ɔ] in both of these articles, Afrikaans and Comparison of Afrikaans and Dutch. Thanks. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 12:21, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm kind of puzzled by apparent differences between:

• Northern Dutch /ʋ/ and Afrikaans /v/. Is the latter really a fricative?
• Dutch /ɪ/ and Afrikaans stressed /ə/. /ə/ to me seems too lax a symbol; I'd use /ɨ/ instead.
• Dutch /ʏ/ and Afrikaans /œ/. I think Northern Dutch /ʏ/ and Afrikaans /œ/ are about the same, in the [ɵ] region.
• Dutch /ɔ/ and Afrikaans /o/. Are they really distinct? If so, isn't Afrikaans /ɛ/ actually [e]?
• Is /eø/ really [eø], not [øə]?
• I'm pretty sure /ɛi/ is wrong, and /əi/ would be more correct.
• If anyone has access to this paper: van der Merwe, A.; Groenewald, E.; van Aardt, D.; Tesner, H. E.C.; Grimbeek, R. J. (2012) [1993], "The formant patterns of Afrikaans vowels as produced by male speakers", South African Journal of Linguistics, 11 (2), Taylor & Francis Group: 71–79, doi:10.1080/10118063.1993.9723910

please do check it out, and please make a formant chart out of it and put it on Afrikaans phonology. — Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 12:15, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In the column "Consonants" the word "jury" appears as if it is an Afrikaans word (which it is not):

ʒ	jury	vision

I think it would be better to use a word such as "genre" here, with the "g" in bold, to approximate the "si" sound in the English "vision". Mieliestronk (talk) 14:38, 10 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

These changes by 82.113.254.20 (talk) evaded our scrutiny, and it seems they are now reflected in some transcriptions in articles. Should we revert them? (cc @Kbb2 and Aeusoes1:) Nardog (talk) 03:02, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know enough about Afrikaans to know which version is correct. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]} 15:28, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Nardog: (Sorry for the delay). Maybe you should check [1] and see for yourself. I'd rather not touch Afrikaans transcriptions. I know that the usual phonemic transcription of Afrikaans is vastly different from how it's actually pronounced (i.e. the most appropriate phonetic symbols), kinda like Danish. The phonemic mid vowels are a mess, e.g. what is transcribed /ɛː eː/ in usual phonemic transcription is [eː iə] in actual pronunciation (though unstressed /eː/ is closer to a short [ɪ], AFAICS (see Lass (1987)) - another complication).

Perhaps, based on Wissing descriptions, we ought to revise the way we transcribe Afrikaans, both phonemically and phonetically. What do you say? Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 07:23, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kbb2: Frankly I'm not interested in reviewing the entire set of symbols at the moment; I'm just asking if the changes made by the IP were in any way well founded. We can't possibly review an entire key every time an inexperienced editor makes a bold edit to it, can we?

And here comes אבגדהוזחטיכל (talk · contribs) making yet other undiscussed changes. I'm too tired to revert them or explain the process. @Aeusoes1 and Austronesier: If you're not, please do. Nardog (talk) 13:18, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi everyone, when I recently edited the transcription of the name of Breyten Breytenbach, I was surprised to find that the diphthong in his name is supposed to be transcribed [ɛi]. No recent publication uses this transcription. Not even our own article on Afrikaans phonology does.

The most common symbol is [əɪ]. In his 2009 publication, Daan Wissing argues, based on experimental results, that the diphthong is actually [æɛ̯] (link to the publication for access via Wikipedia Library). However, in his own recent paper in the Illustrations of the IPA series (Wissing, 2020; link via Wikipedia library), Wissing uses [əɪ] again. (Maybe I missed it, but as far as I have seen, he does not even discuss the phonetic quality of this phoneme in this paper.) But where did [ɛi] come from? Maybe one of the publications from the 1980s?

This issue has already been mentioned ten years ago, but no changes have been made. So I would like to suggest the following: If nobody has any well-founded objections, I will change the transcription guidelines to [əɪ] in two weeks. There are only about 170 transcriptions in Afrikaans, so maybe 20 or 30 that contain that phoneme. I am happy to change these as well.

I am tagging @Nardog, @Offa29, @IvanScrooge98 and @Jöttur as recent editors of the guidelines to give you the chance to react to these suggestions. Thanks in advance for your input. Isoglosse (talk) 18:39, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have changed the guidelines according to Wissing 2016, 2020. Isoglosse (talk) 18:13, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have checked all articles with transcriptions in Afrikaans and have updated them, where necessary, according to the guidelines. (Also, I have corrected quite a few transcriptions that were wrong.) Isoglosse (talk) 20:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]