Template talk:US First Ladies

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Template:US First Ladies is permanently protected from editing because it is a heavily used or highly visible template. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by consensus, editors may use {{edit template-protected}} to notify an administrator or template editor to make the requested edit. Usually, any contributor may edit the template's documentation to add usage notes or categories. Any contributor may edit the template's sandbox. This template does not have a testcases subpage. You can create the testcases subpage here.

Looking for feedback on the layout of the template. Please see the version here which uses {{Navigation with image}} and the other version there which uses the {{Dynamic navigation box with image}}. Thanks. — MrDolomite • Talk 06:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-04-26T06:42:00.000Z","author":"MrDolomite","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MrDolomite-2007-04-26T06:42:00.000Z-Navbox_layout_feedback","replies":[]}}-->

Please! The Nancy Reagan page looks pretty bad! Happyme22 01:45, 14 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-08-14T01:45:00.000Z","author":"Happyme22","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Happyme22-2007-08-14T01:45:00.000Z-Someone_Please_Fix_This!","replies":[]}}-->

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To anyone who can edit this template (currently protected because it is part of the protected Pat Nixon page): The template includes Thomas Jefferson's wife Martha; in the words of her own Wikipedia article, "She never became First Lady of the United States because she died long before her husband was elected to the presidency." Other presidential wives who died before their husbands became president, such as Rachel Jackson, are excluded from the list, and Martha Jefferson should be likewise. --Jfruh (talk) 16:25, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-10-13T16:25:00.000Z","author":"Jfruh","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jfruh-2008-10-13T16:25:00.000Z-Martha_Jefferson_should_be_removed","replies":["c-RockMFR-2008-10-13T19:25:00.000Z-Jfruh-2008-10-13T16:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've changed it back to Martha Jefferson Randolph, which is what is was until recently. --- RockMFR 19:25, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-10-13T19:25:00.000Z","author":"RockMFR","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-RockMFR-2008-10-13T19:25:00.000Z-Jfruh-2008-10-13T16:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Jfruh-2008-10-13T20:04:00.000Z-RockMFR-2008-10-13T19:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

Excellent! Thanks. --Jfruh (talk) 20:04, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-10-13T20:04:00.000Z","author":"Jfruh","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Jfruh-2008-10-13T20:04:00.000Z-RockMFR-2008-10-13T19:25:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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Please add Melania Trump (elect) to the list.- CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 23:56, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-11-09T23:56:00.000Z","author":"Champion","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Champion-2016-11-09T23:56:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_9_November_2016","replies":["c-Andy_M._Wang-2016-11-10T01:08:00.000Z-Champion-2016-11-09T23:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

Not done for now. Per November 2008 edits, we should probably follow a similar example. It's not official until January. @Champion: Redacting previous. Can you ping Wikipedia talk:WikiProject United States or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics/American politics for a second opinion perhaps? If there's no reply or opposition, can add it then. — Andy W. (talk) 01:08, 10 November 2016 (UTC) 01:11, 10 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-11-10T01:08:00.000Z","author":"Andy M. Wang","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Andy_M._Wang-2016-11-10T01:08:00.000Z-Champion-2016-11-09T23:56:00.000Z","replies":["c-CookieMonster755-2016-11-27T02:35:00.000Z-Andy_M._Wang-2016-11-10T01:08:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Andy\u00a0W."}}-->

@Champion: and @Andy M. Wang: – instead of adding Melania Trump (elect), why not add it as (designee)? CookieMonster755 𝚨-𝛀 02:35, 27 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-11-27T02:35:00.000Z","author":"CookieMonster755","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-CookieMonster755-2016-11-27T02:35:00.000Z-Andy_M._Wang-2016-11-10T01:08:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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Could somebody who has the ability to edit this template add Melania Trump now that she is First Lady. -- Millionsandbillions (talk) 20:41, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-01-20T20:41:00.000Z","author":"Millionsandbillions","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Millionsandbillions-2017-01-20T20:41:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_January_20,_2017","replies":["c-John_of_Reading-2017-01-20T20:46:00.000Z-Millionsandbillions-2017-01-20T20:41:00.000Z"]}}-->

 Done -- John of Reading (talk) 20:46, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-01-20T20:46:00.000Z","author":"John of Reading","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-John_of_Reading-2017-01-20T20:46:00.000Z-Millionsandbillions-2017-01-20T20:41:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

The image is of the Presidential seal, likely not applicable to this page. And the template is far too small for its state to be collapsed, a change to autocollapse seems appropriate. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:28, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-06-14T12:28:00.000Z","author":"Randy Kryn","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Randy_Kryn-2017-06-14T12:28:00.000Z-Edits_requested","replies":[]}}-->

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1. (numbered) instead of * (bullet points) and the years served in brackets next to each First Lady similar to the list of presidents navbox. Much neater and informative that way than just all the names clumped together. 82.40.107.245 (talk) 00:30, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-07-25T00:30:00.000Z","author":"82.40.107.245","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-82.40.107.245-2018-07-25T00:30:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_July_2018","replies":["c-FlightTime-2018-07-25T00:37:00.000Z-82.40.107.245-2018-07-25T00:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit template-protected}} template. - FlightTime (open channel) 00:37, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-07-25T00:37:00.000Z","author":"FlightTime","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-FlightTime-2018-07-25T00:37:00.000Z-82.40.107.245-2018-07-25T00:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Shouldn't Hillary be titled Hillary Rodham Clinton since that was the name she was predominate known by as First Lady? CookieMonster755✉

No. A Rfc was held & the result was to use Hillary Clinton. GoodDay (talk) 01:23, 12 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-12-12T01:23:00.000Z","author":"GoodDay","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GoodDay-2018-12-12T01:23:00.000Z-Hillary","replies":["c-CookieMonster755-2019-05-08T23:46:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-12-12T01:23:00.000Z"]}}-->

that was only for the MAIN ARTICLE, GoodDay. She was known with Rodham in her name during her time as First Lady. CookieMonster755✉ 23:46, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-05-08T23:46:00.000Z","author":"CookieMonster755","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-CookieMonster755-2019-05-08T23:46:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-12-12T01:23:00.000Z","replies":["c-GoodDay-2019-05-08T23:48:00.000Z-CookieMonster755-2019-05-08T23:46:00.000Z"]}}-->

It's the case for all the articles, we go with Hillary Clinton. GoodDay (talk) 23:48, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-05-08T23:48:00.000Z","author":"GoodDay","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-GoodDay-2019-05-08T23:48:00.000Z-CookieMonster755-2019-05-08T23:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Thank you! :) CookieMonster755✉ 23:53, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-05-08T23:53:00.000Z","author":"CookieMonster755","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-CookieMonster755-2019-05-08T23:53:00.000Z-Hillary","replies":[]}}-->

The presidential seal should be removed. This article is about the first ladies, not the presidents. GoodDay (talk) 01:23, 12 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-12-12T01:23:00.000Z","author":"GoodDay","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GoodDay-2018-12-12T01:23:00.000Z-Remove_the_prez_seal.","replies":[]}}-->

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Add "Jill Biden" after "Melania Trump", as Joe Biden has officially been inaugurated and is now the current President of the United States. Paintspot Infez (talk) 17:34, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-01-20T17:34:00.000Z","author":"Paintspot","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Paintspot-2021-01-20T17:34:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_20_January_2021","replies":["c-Jonesey95-2021-01-20T18:56:00.000Z-Paintspot-2021-01-20T17:34:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Paintspot Infez"}}-->

 Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:56, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-01-20T18:56:00.000Z","author":"Jonesey95","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jonesey95-2021-01-20T18:56:00.000Z-Paintspot-2021-01-20T17:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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Add Jill Biden to the template. Woko Sapien (talk) 17:55, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-01-20T17:55:00.000Z","author":"Woko Sapien","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Woko_Sapien-2021-01-20T17:55:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_20_January_2021_(2)","replies":["c-Jonesey95-2021-01-20T18:56:00.000Z-Woko_Sapien-2021-01-20T17:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

 Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:56, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-01-20T18:56:00.000Z","author":"Jonesey95","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jonesey95-2021-01-20T18:56:00.000Z-Woko_Sapien-2021-01-20T17:55:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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Remove the presidential seal from the template as these are the first ladies, not the US presidents. GoodDay (talk) 20:46, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-01-21T20:46:00.000Z","author":"GoodDay","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GoodDay-2021-01-21T20:46:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_21_January_2021_(3)","replies":["c-Jonesey95-2021-01-22T00:42:00.000Z-GoodDay-2021-01-21T20:46:00.000Z"]}}-->

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit template-protected}} template. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:42, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-01-22T00:42:00.000Z","author":"Jonesey95","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jonesey95-2021-01-22T00:42:00.000Z-GoodDay-2021-01-21T20:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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See also my sandbox (option A) for the changes I'm proposing:

1. Remove the seal image per WP:NAVIMAGES (both Template:US presidents and Template:US vice presidents had their seals removed under this rule)
2. Create a group for the first ladies list, with group name linking directly to First Lady of the United States
3. Add a link to Hillary Clinton's tenure under her main link
4. Create a second group for related articles (Bibliography of United States presidential spouses and first ladies, First family of the United States, List of First Lady of the United States firsts, List of memoirs by first ladies of the United States, First Ladies National Historic Site)
5. Either remove First Ladies: Influence & Image, or add a link to The First Lady (American TV series). Both are TV series about the first ladies, I think we should either include both, or preferably neither as this navbox could get long if/when more series about FLOTUS are made
6. Add a link to Category:First ladies of the United States in the footer. Woko Sapien (talk) 16:10, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230110161000","author":"Woko Sapien","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Woko_Sapien-20230110161000-Template-protected_edit_request_on_10_January_2023","replies":["c-MSGJ-20230110204100-Woko_Sapien-20230110161000","c-Paine_Ellsworth-20230111124300-Woko_Sapien-20230110161000"]}}-->

It is normally a good idea to discuss changes before using the {{editprotected}} template. Personally I support most of these but question number 2 because it duplicates the titles of the navbox, and takes up valuable space — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:41, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230110204100","author":"MSGJ","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-MSGJ-20230110204100-Woko_Sapien-20230110161000","replies":["c-Woko_Sapien-20230110220200-MSGJ-20230110204100"]}}-->

Let me know what you think of option B. It maximizes space by removing the seal image as well as by not having a group name. It doesn't have the category link, but does have all the related links stored nicely in the footer. Woko Sapien (talk) 22:02, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230110220200","author":"Woko Sapien","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Woko_Sapien-20230110220200-MSGJ-20230110204100","replies":["c-MSGJ-20230110225700-Woko_Sapien-20230110220200","c-Paine_Ellsworth-20230111025800-Woko_Sapien-20230110220200"]}}-->

Much better — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:57, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230110225700","author":"MSGJ","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-MSGJ-20230110225700-Woko_Sapien-20230110220200","replies":[]}}-->

The category link could be included after the NHS link in the footer. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 02:58, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230111025800","author":"Paine Ellsworth","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Paine_Ellsworth-20230111025800-Woko_Sapien-20230110220200","replies":[],"displayName":"P.I.\u00a0Ellsworth"}}-->

 Completed (to option B). P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 12:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230111124300","author":"Paine Ellsworth","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Paine_Ellsworth-20230111124300-Woko_Sapien-20230110161000","replies":[],"displayName":"P.I.\u00a0Ellsworth"}}-->